Read this article in Malaysia-today regarding one specialist overseas undermining the locally trained clinical ( medical and surgical ) specialists.
I really don't understand why we view foreign exams as the nirvana ; we should work to get our local training recognized and it is more relevant to our setting. In the UK , it is no more the exams but CSST ( Certificate of Completion of Specialist Training ) which will confirm one as a trained Specialist . In the near future , passing the royal college exams will not be the requirement to qualify for CSST.
He made few accusations :
"Anyone who has been an examiner at these 'Masters Program' examinations will attest to the fact that the standard of English of these 'Masters Specialist graduates' not only borders on the atrocious, but the aptitude of the candidates is equally petrifying. Examiners however are instructed in no uncertain terms that the passing numbers must be closer to 100% rather then the 20 to 30% practiced by the Royal Colleges. If any of these 'Masters' candidates 'fail', lo and behold , the concerned examiner will be called up for an explanation and if he is a foreign examiner, well, it may be his last paid holiday to Malaysia."
Well , standard of English depends on where the doctor came from ; I suppose he was aiming to the Malays more than the non malays. But it is about the knowledge and practice that the doctor can deliver ; and it crosses language barrier. Any examiner would understand that concept.
" Some universities such as USM and UKM are popular because 'passing' is assured by the same techniques made available during SPM/PMR exams where examination questions are made available to candidates prior to actual examinations through various 'tutorials'
Interesting.. I would love to see his evidence.
"Lop sided churning out of 100% passes at USM and UKM were getting so obvious that 'Conjoint Boards' between the three universities had to be set-up to reduce bias. However this has not gone down well with certain universities who claim, 'Chinese examiner fails Malay candidate. Therefore Malay candidate must be examined only by Malay examiner with 'friendly' external examiner from India. Otherwise, Malay examiner will start failing Chinese candidate'. This nonsense has gotten so bad that candidates who wise up usually will spend a little more and sit for the postgraduate examinations held by the Royal Colleges simultaneously"
Rumours or written reports ? He should get testimonials before putting this down for public viewing. 10 lies make it true !
Though he may have few points to his side with regards to the Government policy , it is not something new. It is not breaking ground news. But to question the universities , I do urge that the UM/UKM/USM Deans to come out and answer these allegations. It is the integrity of our institution at stake and for somebody to come and bullet out such ammunition is atrocious.
P/S I wanted to write my comments on the article feed ; but i am not registered as Malaysia-today member ! Hahaha.. Just registered and i hope to be able to contribute in the intellectual discourse.
5 comments:
Dear Friend,
You sound a lot like some bureaucrat asking, "Show me the evidence of corruption".
It's about time you wake and see the reality around you!
There are lot's of Kangkung morons walking around in the Medical "halls of fame (or is it shame?) & fortune".
The evidence is there for all to see.
You don't need statistics for that, buddy!
If you can't see that, you've definitely over-rated yourself, in thinking that you can contribute to "intellectual" debate on MT!
My friend ,
I am learning and will always learn..
I may not be an intellectual , but i do hope to give some of my opinion so that we can throw discussions open . Thank you for your kind remarks in encouraging positive discourse! I believe that everybody has their say no matter how stupid it may sound and should be respected.
I work hard to pass my exams and to say that my achievements not to my merit is an insult.The core of modern medicine practice is evidence based therefore remarks , sayings without core facts should be challenged and questioned.
I do hope to see a lot more of your intelligent arguments on the net so that i can learn from them , insya allah.
Thank you.
I want to have my say! I want to have my say!
This race thing:-
I am not in the post graduate programme yet, but I was an undergraduate at a local university. At undergraduate level, the only way to get into medicine is to enrol into form six and study your ass off. STPM is one of the hardest exams around with good results being few and far between. Its really hard to do well and even harder to get into med school (I am blushing now..) Plus in any uni, medical seats are always limited. More so in our country, then there is the quota system. Malays get most of the seats, followed by Chinese and us Indians.
Many of my Malay friends took a different route. they studied at these residential schools, did matriculation and subsequently, the cream of them did medicine. Some who did extra well were sent overseas, after the currency crisis, many studied medicine here.
Now, matriculation is more organised, plenty of guided teaching and less of the big bang concept of one grand exam. Thus we can say its easier. That and the NEP which allowed a high intake of Malay students made up for the large numbers of them in med school.
So, here's the truth as I know it. Its easier to get into med schools here if you are Bumi.
In med school, it was free for all. The Malay's didnt cheat to pass for their exams. Not to my knowledge. I dont know of any single Bumi student who got exam papers or secret questions. I know many of those who did well and they were bright chaps who did their share of work.
Med school is not all that hard. Nail your ass to the chair, cram for many hours a day. Repeat the process again and again and you should pass.
You know what they say, the hotter the furnace, the harder the metal
Well, to get in as a non Malay is extremely difficult. A lot us had a really-really hard time mugging for the STPM and practising exam questions. I can feel old ulcers begin to fester again at the thought. Med school wasnt all that hard after that. Those who got in were like the Navy SEALs of mugging and studying.
Thus we GENERALLY fared better that the Bumi's.
There; a simple and logical explanation.
The Bumi's from UM/UKM/UPM didnt cheat in the clinicals, dint cheat in their MCQ's, didnt bunk classes and didnt pass on race.
They GENERALLY were a bit behind in grades when in came to exams for the above mentioned reason.
Thats the truth as I know it.
Why am I saying this?
You Malay medical students, work extra hard. You are studying with some really smart guys.
And the non-Malays, please for the love of God live up to evryone's expectations.
Now, for the local masters:-
The selection process. I dont know, there is always a large number of Malays's, (this being Malaysia and all) followed by other races.
The Four year course is an entirely different process from undergrad days.
In the four year course, all student work in approved hospitals, all students are to attend regular classes at their uni's, all students are to report to their mentor, (God help you if you had a bad one) all student complete their logbooks, all student go through many rotations of their speciality, do additional elective postings, present a research paper and all of them sit for exams. all 'kerja sambil belajar'
Much, much harder and a lot of hassle. Its easire to do your MRCP and be done in two years. You can pass you MRCP with less than 10 bone marrow biopsies, less than ten central lines and less than 10 anything to your name. You just need good English. By the way, the MRCP is till recognised here as a physicians qualifications..
I know dozens and dozens of Malay specialist (there being a lot of them who passed their masters!) ALL of them knew their work, Boys (and girls) were good. They had four years of work under their belt.
But what do I know?
The good doctor who wrote that article is perhaps and examiner?
Yup, they ALL have bad English, (big deal, try talking with a cockney accent to the pakcik with lymphoma) and a petryifying attitude.
Can all the Malay doctors who regularly go back late, who talk and explain things to all their patients, who got double qualifications from the royal college tell him to go and shove it?
I know there are plenty of you. Those of you who are not quite there, buck up, then tell him to go and shove it.
Part 1, Part 2, you got you MRCP by 28. Part 1, Part 2, you got your MRCOG by 30. And he's saying the local master's is a sham!
And all the specialst are poorly trained. Strange, many of our patients seems to be getting better...
Read between the doctor's line. White good, black(Indian, Pakistani,African) no good. Non Malay, good, Malay no good. Can speak Engliosg good. locally trained, no good, overseas trained, and preferably white, very, very good. I thought the Ketuanan Melayu guys were racist...
As far as our health care system goes, its far from perfect, but its one of the best in the world. No one is denied of surgery, medidcine, hospital admission and ICU care because they are poor. No one, you dont need a GP's referall to walk into the emercy at HKL, you dont a social security number or insurance for life saving surgery for any procedure in ANY hospital in the country.
And none of our Malay patients are xenophobic, no one minds being treated by 'black' doctors. Not in my experience. Same in UK?
We do recognise overseas qualifications, FANZCA, MRCP, MRCOG, Msc from Singapore.
Unfortunate for the author, surgery isnt recognised, he cant come here and earn big bucks.
Dr. M, you wanted to join the 'intellectual' debate on MT. Those people thinks a party represented by an amatuer movie maker is the hope for a new malaysia.
another joker said Unimas grads dont know much about medicine, another says our health care system will be like Rwanda's in a few years! Dont waste your time.
read my sermon instead...
People have many bad qualities.
We are destructive, we destroy the planet, we kill other living things for fun, we wage war for oil, we warm the planet, blah, blah blah.. One of the least of our sins is that we are colour conscious. all people are racist to an extent.
Malaysian specialist abroad, you are saying there is NO preferential treatment given to white doctors over doctors of african origin in the UK? give it a rest.
Its just that, when race based policies take precedent like in Malaysia, that bad quality shows its worst features.
Our nation is still young. there will come a time, maybe not in our lifetime when race will no longer matter. america is already receptive to its first black presidency candidate....we too will mature one day.
Bit by bit, little by little this ancient and silly concept about a 'master race' will vanish from all parts of the world. Its how we evolve.
then there will be no stopping this country.
to conclude, can anyone tell what resusitave techniques including reanimation men? I really cant seem to find on the net
I am not done yet.
The following post contains some strong racial undertones and in many instances, go against the NEP, and probably will do no good.
Why post it here then?
Simple, I dont have a blogspot and if the authoraties get pissed off, both me and Dr.M will sit in jail together, this being his site and all!!
UiTM medical faculty shouldn't be exclusively Malay. There, i said it.
Why?
1.Many Malay kids from rural kampungs dont see any non malays around during their primary school.Many Malay students have been in full residential schools since 13 years of age. All those in those schools are malays. They then do matric. All those in matric are malays. Then they go to UiTM, all those there are Malays.
How are supoosed to know that we are really nice and cool people?
Seriously, racially segregated institutes of hire learning isnt a good thing. Young minds are supposed to learn to me open, more receptive to other people and ideas, more questioning, mix and discuss more freely. Being with all Malay, or all Indian or Chinese or Caucasion group all your student lives leaves you narrow minded. It cultivates insecurity and suspicion. It enhances and already racially biased mindset common in all humans. And these people are going to become leaders and policy makers in our country. No good.
2. You studied overseas, plenty of multicoloured people around. you know many who studied overseas. Any difference in the way you guys interact, mix around, in your very mindset compared to those who never left this country? Remember the seats of Islamic culture and knowledge in days gone by had plenty of visiting scholars from all creeds and cultures. Just mixing around and exchanging ideas gave birth to a better world.
3. Its just plain unfair. UITM is funded by the governmnet. It all boils down to taxpayers money. Plenty of us taxpayers are dark, yellow, short and tall. Its not nice to take all that funds and create and institute just for one group. we are not setting a good example to our children. the world is unfair enough as it is. no need to expose them blatant discrimination or worse still, no need to show them how we to PROFIT from baltant discrimination. today its something for malays only. Tomorrow it will something for the rich only, or men only, or tall people only. we learn to discrimate so very easily. The concept of Uitm goes against the very concept of nation building in a multi cultural society. Malays are NOT xenophobic by nature. Why cultivate such habits amnong them?
4. It will be a step backwards. In the sixties, the good old United states had many universities that were for white people only. Yup, its true. The same United States thats "fighting for a free Iraq".
Such concepts of segregation were never in our society then. In UM, many young minds, Indian, Chinese, Malays studied medicine together. And what solid citizens our forefathers made! What great strides we achieved as a nation! Many of those who studied together are big people today. they still hang out together. and they laid the foundation of our country together. And they are all crying together (yup the malay's among them too) at the state of our country today. This is a multicultured society. there is none like it in the world. and the stronger our interacial bonds are, the stronger the nation is. and the stronger we become as individuals.
Is the results of the recent survey on inter racial friendship any suprise?
5. the malay's wont lose anything. 80% malay, 20% non malay in UiTM and Malay rights are still intact. There is way too much cons against the pros of any form of racially segregated universities. Its is nice to see the sons of farmers, Felda settlers and fisherman do well in life. Its an example of money well spent and a success story in its own right. But the 80%-20% rule wont deny any of them. and the non malays can share a small piece of the pie too!
6. i am veyr afraid that as time goes by, the hogwash 'malaysian specialist abroad' wrote will come true!!
in the US, such institutes would be subject to multiple lawsuits. They have strict anti discrimation laws. And yet, they have a very racially biased population. herad of the klu klux klan? There are hate groups meeting every saturday night wearing white blankets, shouting and screaming slogans. Racial tolerance is good among the Malays. By nature, you guys are nice people. I can walk into any kampung the heart of Kelantan and have a cup of tea in any stall peacefully. And get a good conversation going. Racial hate groups are unknown among you guys. Why on earth do we have such racially biased policies that push the Malays closer and closer each day to our friends in the white blankets?
there, thats my piece. am i anti UiTM? certainly not. Do I expect major changes anytime soon? not in my lifetime. Picket and demonstrate in front of UiTM?-thats a perfect way to foster better relationships!!
the fact that you read this and think about it is more than i can ask for now. and teach your kids whats right, not whats politically correct. I will try too. The changes will come when we are ready for it.
the ball is in you court.
feel free to comment.
thanks
I swear by Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath.
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.
Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.
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